julie54

If you can stand a mini-lesson in U.S. history ....

 

The criminal laws and the punishments for committing crimes are not all the exact same thing everywhere in the United States. Each of the 50 states has its own particular versions of the laws. Yes, murder is murder everywhere. But in some states, the maximum penalty is execution. Other states don't have a death penalty, and instead their maximum sentence is life in prison.

 

Then there are Federal criminal laws too. Certain crimes are prosecuted in the federal courts. Like domestic terrorism, organized crime (i.e. Mafia and similar organizations), taking kidnapped children across state lines, etc.

 

However, no matter which set of criminal laws applies - crimes in a particular state (like New York) or Federal crimes, certain things apply everywhere. Most of all what applies are "constitutional rights" -- rights guaranteed every citizen under the U.S. Constitution. When the original framework of the U.S. Government was built over 200 years ago, the founders created a set of principles to try to prevent some sorts of government abuses they'd seen under feudal governments centuries ago -- especially abuses of the government arresting, trying, convicting and imprisoning citizens.

 

Most of the "rights" you hear about when reading about American crime cases, fiction and in real life, stem from one of the oldest parts of the U.S. Constitution, what's known as the "Bill of Rights." It's a list of ten things, "Amendments" that spell out basic rights promised to all citizens of this country.

 

The "right to silence" is covered under the Fifth Amendment. When you hear something like "I plead the Fifth" it means a person is claiming his/her right to refuse to answer any question police ask that could incriminate him/her. The police cannot force people to tell them things that the police can then use as evidence against them.

 

The "right to a lawyer" is covered under the Sixth Amendment. (In fact, most of rights that concern criminal cases fall under the Sixth Amendment.) If a person wants one, he or she can have a lawyer present when talking to the police -- and most definitely, every person standing trial for a crime has a right to a lawyer, even if the government has to pay the bill.

 

So why do these rights apply to Eva? She didn't kill Nathan. She didn't even know he was in town.

 

She has these rights because it's remotely possible the police could try to accuse her of being involved. She could actually be 100% innocent, but still, the authorities could try to arrest her because they don't believe she's innocent. Because the mere possibility exists she could be implicated, she has a right to have a lawyer with her when the police try to ask her any questions. If she and her lawyer feel it would be bad for her to answer a particular question, she can invoke her right to silence.

 

The right to silence and the right to a lawyer do NOT mean the cops are forbidden to approach Eva. The rights do NOT mean the cops are forbidden to tell her things either. But those rights do mean she does not have to TELL the police things in return. She has every right to have a lawyer beside her -- and to even keep her mouth shut, if she chooses.

 

Most times, when someone possibly involved in a crime says he/she wants a lawyer, all questioning should immediately cease. If the cops keep asking questions, they've gone into a very dangerous place where they could get caught violating a person's constitutional rights. If a judge determines someone's rights were violated, the police cannot ever later use in court things the person said.

 

As soon as Victor figured out the cops were asking Eva questions as a potential witness in a very serious criminal matter, he immediately put a stop to it by telling the cops they'd have to let Eva get a lawyer before she'd do any more talking. Monica reminded Eva the next morning that she needed to have a lawyer with her if the cops wanted to talk to her (Eva) any more than they already had. And when Detective Graves approached Eva at the gym, Eva expressly reminded the detective she (Eva) didn't want to be questioned without a lawyer.

hey! I think that is going to be Gideons get out of jail card. What say the rest of you?

OK, so what did Detective Graves do wrong that makes it impossible (I firmly believe) to get Gideon convicted of murder? I've discussed it in other threads, but I'll summarize here.

 

First, though, Detective Graves already has succeeded in getting one half of the evidence needed to attempt to convict Gideon of murder. She's got enough evidence to argue he had the "opportunity" to commit the crime.

• Gideon had the opportunity to get to Nathan's hotel that night and stab him. He was near enough to the location the night it happened and he had access to Nathan.
• Gideon cannot prove there's no way he could have gone after Nathan that night, because he was somewhere else the entire time and can prove it -- prove his has a solid alibi. The whole party, complete with press photos, was supposed to be Gideon's alibi. He was counting on the cops looking at the press photos and not even bothering to dig any deeper.
• But the detective dug hard enough and found a one-hour window during which Gideon could have slipped away to commit the killing. Graves broke his alibi.

 

So now, she's building the other half of the case, "motive." Gideon's motive. She know he did it, his motive being taking extreme measures to save the life of the woman he loves from a very dangerous person. However, there's a difference between knowing Gideon loved Eva all along and being able to prove it beyond reasonable doubt to a jury.

• Just like Gideon lined up an alibi, he lined up a defense cover story that if worse came to worse and he was charged, he his defense team could offer evidence suggesting Eva meant little to him. Gideon could show that even while Nathan was still alive, Gideon had gotten back together with another woman he's always been in love with - Corrine Giroux.
• Through witnesses and press photos, Gideon can show he and Corrine were already dating again while Nathan was still alive.
• Graves' side of the story is she can prove Gideon was in love with Eva all along and was devastated when Eva ended the relationship two days after Nathan died.
• Graves saw Gideon with Eva's family on Friday evening (after Nathan was already dead.)
• Graves would have copies of phone records that would prove Eva called Gideon from her home phone to his cell phone on Saturday morning.
• Graves can provide eyewitness testimony about Gideon's behavior during that phone call on Saturday.

 

BUT .....

 

Those phone records only show who called who at what time and how long the call lasted. There's no recording of what was said during the call.

 

So Graves tricked Eva into confirming that during that telephone call, Eva broke off the relationship -- she dumped Gideon after Nathan died, not Gideon left her while Nathan was still alive. Graves got the evidence.

 

But Graves obtained it illegally. She questioned Eva without a lawyer after Eva explicitly invoked her right to have a lawyer present for questioning. And because the evidence is illegally obtained, it cannot be used in court. Ever. It's permanently ruined. And because that evidence is now unusable, the motive side of the entire prosecution's case will collapse. They'll never win -- so they won't even attempt to charge Gideon.

 

Starting on June 5, you ladies either get to say I was right or tease me for guessing wrong.

HEY! can't you hear me from across the Atlantic cheering you on. I agree.

LN would better be able to answer this, but I think in NY to be a police officer you have to take a citywide test, and then wait for your number to be called. LN do you know if the NYPD does accept out of city transfers, and wouldn't Victor still be expected to complete training at the academy?

hi Kirsten

I hope I'm wrong but I think it w ill be about Graves and the case, as it's probably only a week into the book, which is supposed to cover just 2 weeks

I dragged my husband to the meet & greet and he was having fun even though he never read the books, lol he thinks I spend way too much time on here discussing the books. He told me to find a few people on here to do have the discussion group in person. I told him not everyone lives in NJ or the US! men lol 

caroline

Your very welcome to come to the UK and sample some of our hospitality. Your all welcome. Hey wouldn't that be fun, our own convention.

Hi Caroline

As a mother, I want to give both of them a hug and tell them, they will be ok

I want to give both of them a hug, as a mother should do, and tell them they are loved

Yes, your right, her mothering skills are pathetic, but she is so consumed with herself and what other people think.

hi

Monica needs to realise, that children are not accessories. The need to be, nurtured, loved unconditionally, protected, put first in all things. Beauty parlours come second! Take that!!

 Monica's reaction to Eva when she found out Eva told Gideon makes me think  Monica is embarassed by what happened to Eva. Monica was all upset and carrying on that Eva had never told any of her other boyfriends what happened.  Thoughts????

hi Laura

Monica was only thinking of herself, as usual. She was worried what people would say, possibly judging her, and rightly so, for not noticing what was going on right under her nose.

How about this crazy idea...what if Gideon is arrested and put on trial for Nathan's murder early on in EWY.  The book could include the trial and how Gideon is found not guilty (reason of insanity, or self defense, whatever the case may be).  I bring this up because I'm having a hard time believing that if there's no trial and no finding Gideon innocent, Eva and Gideon will always have this hanging over them.  It's been said before, there's no statute of limitations on murder. Gideon could be arrested years later.  Sylvia has said repeatedly that Eva and Gideon will have their happily ever after.  How can they be happy if they're always looking over their shoulder? What are your thoughts?

hi

I think EWY only covers 2 weeks of their relationship. The time frame of a court appearance, won't appear in this book.

HELLO EVERYBODY!!!

These are the lines in Chap. 11 that caught my eye:

 

1) It's easy to pick apart someone else's life.

2)You did use me, with my permission.

3)Shh, angel... I'll take care of you.  .....You're mine.

 

and this last one really made my heart melt!

hi Gabri

Good choice. Especially the last quote. Mmmmmmmm, think we would all like to hear that from Gideon. Lol

Two favourite quotes today. His and hers

Gideon.

Gideons breath gusted hard and humid against my throat, his big frame trembling as he slid carefully inside me. Your so soft and warm. Mine, Eva . Your mine. Mmmmmmmmm!

Eva

Biting my lip, I fought back the sounds of helpless pleasure that might've broken the tranquility of the night...and betrayed the frightening depths of emotion I was beginning to feel for Gideon Cross. Yummy!

I desperately feel sorry for Eva, thinking that she would embarrass her family and Gideon for the abuse she suffered. To have to live with that for the rest of your life, thinking that you have brought shame on your family, living with the guilt must be utter torment. Nathan got off lightly in my eyes.

Mrs. C for the win again -- always the first fan in line here to snag the snippet! You rock!!!

 

That's not a regular cop badge either, because regular badges are silver. It's gold "shield", which means it's a detective.

 

Ah hah!!!!!!

 

OK, repeating my you-read-it-here-first big theory, which I believe will make the murder case go buh-bye forever: Detective Graves seriously effed up the case for good. She questioned Eva without Eva's lawyer present after Eva explicitly invoked that right. Graves' mistake poisons key evidence Gideon had the motive to kill Nathan. Permanently poisons the evidence.

 

The answer Graves tricked out of Eva -- who dumped who and when -- cannot ever be admitted as evidence now. And even if Graves gets more dirt now, by catching Gideon and Eva together, that newer evidence also is poison. There's even a legal phrase used by defense lawyers (and judges ruling on defense motions to toss illegally-gained evidence.) It's known as "fruit of the poisoned tree." If illegal evidence is the root, then everything else springing from that root also is inadmissible.

 

So, Chapter 14 -- murder case is OH-VER and our lovers can at last be safe to come out from hiding.

god I hope your right. When I saw that, my heart sank. Please please please let it al be ok.

That sounds Awesome:) My husband thinks I'm crazy for the amount of time i spend talking about these books. He just doesn't understand:)

hey

My daughters say the same. I think they might book me into a clinic. As long as it as Internet access, go for it I say!!

Hi Julie, 

Could it be that Corinne used that bit of information to try and use that against Eva?  If Corinne is as evil as some people think that she is, then could she be deluding herself into thinking that Eva is nothing more than a blond fling?  After all Gideon has always had "serious" relationships with women like Corinne, women who look like Gideon's mother?  What do you think?  What does everyone think?

hi Gigi

Da*n we are back to hair colouring again!

It's good that Eva is blonde if Gideon did have mummy issues. She would hate to find out he had issues with his mother and only dated brunettes because of it. Could she still go out with him, knowing the reason why? Yes, of course she would.

Hi Julie,

Fabulous!!

Easter is coming.  So all my forum sisters are invited!  I have a nice big house with lots of bedrooms for all.  Be sure to bring your sleeping bags though ladies!  I also have a nice backyard so whom ever doesn't fit in the house can pitch a tent in the backyard. 

 

Also, remember to bring sweatpants or stretchy pants.  You ladies are going to eat like there is no tomorrow European style!!

 

P.S.  I should warn you that I have four dogs who think that they are human and they will absolutely kill you with kisses and licks! Oh and they also expect belly rubs and ear rubs too!  So be warned.   

Hi Julie,

Fabulous!!

Easter is coming.  So all my forum sisters are invited!  I have a nice big house with lots of bedrooms for all.  Be sure to bring your sleeping bags though ladies!  I also have a nice backyard so whom ever doesn't fit in the house can pitch a tent in the backyard. 

 

Also, remember to bring sweatpants or stretchy pants.  You ladies are going to eat like there is no tomorrow European style!!

 

P.S.  I should warn you that I have four dogs who think that they are human and they will absolutely kill you with kisses and licks! Oh and they also expect belly rubs and ear rubs too!  So be warned.   

what a fab idea. What a hoot that would be. Sitting round your table slogging out our theories, especially if Sylvia came too. I love dogs, ill bring mine to play with yours.

I've been friends for a long time with a guy who is bisexual. The only way he differs from me sexually (I'm a straight woman) is that he's got a larger pool of people to choose from.

 

When it comes to sexual attraction, none of us deliberately and consciously decides "oh there's a good candidate -- I'll start desiring him/her now." It just happens, naturally. A wonderful thing if the object of our affection wants us back. Heartbreaking if that person does not want us back.

 

Just like me, this friend has over the years developed sexual attraction to other people, starting in his teens and continuing throughout adulthood. When a person wanted him in return, he entered a relationship. Sometimes, his new partner would be a gay or bisexual man. Other times, his new partner would be a straight or bisexual woman. That's the only way my friend and I differ - specifics of our sexually histories.

 

As a straight female, each person I've gotten hot for over the years has been male, and all of my sexual relationships involved guys who were mutually attracted to me in return. Most of them were straight too, but there was one instance in college where the guy turned out to be bisexual. After that relationship ended (one of those short-term college flings freshman year) he'd go on to have other relationships with partners of both genders. And of course, I've developed attractions to men who were gay. I'd go on to become friends with some after I gave up on any hope we'd ever be more than that, and I let my desire burn itself out with time.

 

In one case that I know of, a woman developed an unrequited serious attraction to me. I had to cut off contact with that woman just like I would with any guy who was trying to pressure me into a relationship I never was going to start, because I didn't desire the person back. NOTE: I didn't cut her out of my life because of her sexual orientation. I've got friends of all sexual orientations. I cut that woman out because she made it impossible for us to be just friends (stop pressuring me and let her attraction to me die down with time. She wasn't taking "I'm not interested" as a final answer.) 

 

With all that personal history to draw on, I view the character of Cary as like me deep down inside -- he develops attraction to people who sometimes want him back, sometimes don't. The fact he's bisexual simply widens the potential pool of possible lovers, because he's got both genders to pick from, where I stick to just one gender.

 

I don't view his situation with Tatianna as meaning he's "mostly straight." I see that set up as "friends with benefits" -- they have sex for their own mutual enjoyment, but are not placing any additional demands on one another. It's a kinder, gentler version of what Gideon used to do when choosing "strangers with benefits." (Gideon refused to get friendly with his sex partners.)

 

Trey, I think, misinterprets the Tatianna situation as Cary being a mostly straight guy experimenting with men. The truth of the matter is, the real root of the tumult is Cary has got commitment issues and Trey apparently has got co-dependency issues. Trey is, thus far, another one in a series of dysfunctional relationships. We read in Chapter One of Bared that Cary's got a long history of that.

 

Turns out, so does Eva. And her relationship with Gideon starts off dysfunctional for the very same reason -- Gideon's got commitment issues and Eva's got co-dependency issues. Their love for one another (including a willingness to go through couples' therapy) will ultimately make their relationship work.

 

We can hope for the same happily ever after for Cary, a relationship that works. The only question is, with who? Trey? Tatianna? Someone else in his future? Who will turn out to be the great love of Cary's life?

hi

I spoke to a friend this morning, who is gay she said the same as you. At the end of the day, it's all about being in a loving relationship.

Good morning Julie,

I think it depends on whether Gideon had these nightmares before his abuse or whether the abuse took its toll on Gideon psychologically and the nightmares started occuring after the abuse.  I suspect that Gideon started having nightmares well after his abuse began (which means that Gideon might have a chance of resolving his nightmare issues).  It is the brains' way of trying to process the events of the abuse and the magnitude of the emotional damage that has been done. 

 

I know of many, many, many, people who have had specific periods of extreme stress, who got the appropriate mental help and never had recurrent violent nightmares.  I am hoping that Gideon will fall into this category.  The one thing I have to mention is that the brain is wonderous and very very tricky!  As scientists we know so little about how this magnificent organ works.  It is said that we as humans only use 10% of our brains.  So imagine what our brains must be doing while we sit back and scratch our heads trying to figure out why we did what we didgeridoo gig

 

I know that the brain "psyche" will self preserve in what ever way it needs to during extreme situations.  I would count se**** abuse as one of those situations.  Often times, victims will describe having an out-of-body experience.  That is the brains' way of trying to protect itself from the trauma being caused.  Other times, people can't remember the most horrific events or have mental blocks when trying to recall horrendous events.  That is the brains' way of trying to protect itself.  Do you know what I mean?

hey Gigi

I agree with you totally, hopefully Gideon will resolve his issues, so they can resume sleeping together.

Most of the patients, didn't recall anything of the attack when questioned after their nightmare. It's a very sad illness, born out of some horrendous time in their lives.

Hi Julie,

I don’t think that Cary being bisexual has anything to do with whether he would be able to remain faithful or not.  I think that Cary just likes men and women.  In the end I think it will depend on what type of relationship Cary will want for himself.  Will he want an open relationship (one where each partner has the ability to see more than one person at the same time) or will he choose a monogamous relationship (one where each person only sees the other during the course of the relationship).

 

I personally think that Cary started “misbehaving†after had the “discussion†with Trey.  Trey wanted Cary to be something that he’s not and I think that Cary wasn’t emotionally mature enough to let Trey go and to trust that life would bring him the right partner.   Or maybe Cary didn’t want to decide which side of the fence he wanted to sit and also didn’t have the courage to tell Trey that, so he played both sides of the fence until he got caught.  Who knows?  What do you think?  What does everyone think?

we need an opinion from someone who is or knows a person to get their pov. Cary says he loves Trey, but he loves to dip his wick in women. Surely if he loves Trey, he would be faithful to him. I agree that Cary is emotionally immature, if he wants a proper relationship, he needs to grow up. Poor boy!

Hi Julie,

I think that Gideon’s violent nightmares are a symptom of his underlying issues.  I think that as soon as he starts to deal with the trauma he suffered as a child and starts talking about what happened to him as a child, then I think that the nightmares will resolve.

 

I also like your suggestion of separate beds.  It seems reasonable given the circumstances.  I am not sure if Eva could continue to fend Gideon off in one of his “nightmare†states.  I think that if Eva was repeatedly force to have to defend herself against a man that she loves, it would end up draining her emotionally and ultimately the relationship wouldn’t survive.  What do you think?  What does everyone think?

morning Gigi

Weekend is nearly here, so I can start to burn the midnight oil with you!

When I googled this subject, I was horrified at what the people go through. They are treated with meds and therapy, but I couldn't find anywhere where it stated that they recovered totally.

Hopefully, Gideons nightmares will ease when he starts to open up to Eva and Dr Petersen.

Not only would Eva struggle if Gideon kept attacking her while sleeping together,, but I think it would crucify Gideon as well as he is a big chap.

I think corrine is also insecure deep down in her icy soul (lol!) & jealous of Eva.  

one thing that sticks in my mind, is when Gideon tells Eva , that Corrine was surprised that Eva didn't look like her(Corrine), as all his other "partners" did. Did that send alarm bells ringing to Corrine, that he had totally gone off track, and she felt threatened?

Mr. Sometimes Clueless Cross. Carefully re-read that first conversation Corrine had with Eva, out of Gideon's earshot, on pages 312 to 314 of Bared. This was immediately after Gideon had taken Corrine aside and tried to convince her to keep quiet about their (his and Corrine's) history for now, given Eva's insecurities. Already, Corrine was using the weapons Gideon just handed to her.

 

In order, this is what Corrine fed to Eva, acting oh so sweet as she did, the two-faced little ......

 

Said she and Gideon had been friends for a long time

Suggests Gideon had always stayed in contact with her over the years

 

Admitted she was still in love with him

Throws down the gauntlet - she wants him back

 

Told Eva she (Corrine) was grateful to her for getting Gideon to open up

Lands first punch by making Eva fear that maybe her own purpose had been to prepare Gideon for Corrine

 

Gave her reason for leaving Gideon being afraid at the time he was possessive -- yet she later realized his being possessive had been a good thing

Suggests Gideon is possessive of her still -which is exactly why Gideon had latched right onto Corrine the instant he saw her there, and walked around for some time with Corrine on his arm

 

Explained that when she found out how serious Gideon was about Eva, she (Corrine) at first was afraid to see them together as a couple

Suggests that something changed so that now Corrine has no reason to fear Eva as a real rival anymore

 

Oh so casually threw in a mention that when she reached out to him for help to come back to New York, she called him in the middle of some charity event

Corrine knew d*** well she interrupted Gideon on a date with Eva. Corrine scored a knockdown punch here - Gideon had ditched her (Eva) that night to drop everything for Corrine's needs

 

"He told me he'd met someone. That he wanted you and me to meet when I got into town."

Implication - he never told Corrine he was in love with Eva. Implied that he wasn't even going to tell Eva about Corrine until Corrine got back to town. Made it clear Gideon wants Corrine a part of his social life again. 

what a cowbag! Every time I read that passage, I want to punch that lady's -she ain't no lady-lights out. I think I would have marched right out of there myself, if I had been Eva.

I saw this quote and thought of a certain person.

Only trust someone who can see these 3 things in you

The Sorrow behind your smile

The Love behind your anger

And the Reason behind your silence

As to book covers... Same problem here in Italy: we've got high heeled black pumps for Bared, and a ring set with light blue diamonds for Reflected. I think it all depends on what image the editor thinks is going be the most appealing to would-be buyers... American covers are definitely better!!!

we have the same as you Gabri. I prefer the American covers too. They seem to relate to the story.

Hello everybody!!!

My pick in Chap. 10 is Gedeon's 'I trust you' when it comes to having unprotected s** with Eva. It speaks volumes indeed!!

definitely. His is already starting to trust her, probably without realising it. He has probably always used a condom when having s*x, given his stash at his f**kpad. But then again, most of his dates were for casual s*x, so it's not a bad thing.

since there is no cure maybe he will have less frequent nightmares?

im hoping, once he starts opening up to Eva, his condition may improve. He must be like a volcano waiting to erupt, needing to get it all out in the open. It's a wonder he is still sane.